tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post3454690731954198740..comments2024-03-15T16:58:18.866-05:00Comments on Full Custom Gospel BBQ: Should Journalists Credit Bloggers for Pilfering Their Content?smokemasteronehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13060574775769962975noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-26933711303614114182010-12-28T18:35:29.061-06:002010-12-28T18:35:29.061-06:00http://www.scrumptiouschef.com/food/index.cfm/2010...http://www.scrumptiouschef.com/food/index.cfm/2010/12/27/Dirty-Print-Media-Maven-Preys-On-Righteous-Barbecue-Blogger<br /><br />Austin's #1 food blog's coverage of the dustup.<br /><br />RL Reeves Jr.RL Reeves Jrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-38575676903192136962010-12-25T10:23:32.588-06:002010-12-25T10:23:32.588-06:00As a onetime restaurant reviewer for a large West ...As a onetime restaurant reviewer for a large West Coast daily far from the great state of Texas, I NEVER wrote about a restaurant without visiting it twice.<br /><br />And it was unthinkable to "lift" or rewrite some other critic's work and pass it off as mine. I didn't even do roundups that weren't based on my personal experience.<br /><br />On my paper, you'd get fired for that. Maybe the DMN has different standards.<br /><br />And about bloggers. By and large, they aren't legit journos. They spout opinion often supported by flimsy or fabricated facts. They don't do it as a full-time occupation, but rather as an off-again/on-again discourse not subject to any editorial regulation.<br /><br />If you truly want to get after that DMN critic, check out the last two years of her reviews to see if she regularly pilfers material without crediting the source.John Painter Jr.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-22170540086043152912010-12-12T10:47:37.466-06:002010-12-12T10:47:37.466-06:00The fact that the same error you made in your orig...The fact that the same error you made in your original <b>article</b> (emphasis added for the point that bloggers are journalists, too) also appeared in the DMN's article is, to me, prima facie evidence not of failing to attribute a source, but, in fact, <b><i>PLAGIARISM</i></b>. <br /><br />At the newspaper where I was human resources manager, that was an offense that would get a writer fired.Steve Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14890097586211634385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-29256059359425103052010-12-08T10:32:48.167-06:002010-12-08T10:32:48.167-06:00I just sent this to Brenner and two DMN editors:
...I just sent this to Brenner and two DMN editors:<br /><br />Ms. Brenner,<br /> <br />You should have cited Daniel Vaughn and his D Magazine article or his Full Custom Gospel BBQ blog in compiling your Best Barbecue list. Producing a best-of list implies that you visited a very large sampling of what is available. Visiting 20 joints and picking 9 does not pass muster. The evidence suggests that you tried to gain unfairly from his legwork and downright lifted some of his writing. Your article would have been just as appealing to readers had you cited his D Magazine article or if you had even taken the angle of testing his picks, which incidentally I think would have made a great story. <br /> <br />Mr. Vaughn's picks for best BBQ in DFW were a revelation to most folks, including me. They were a far cry from the lists other publications, including yours, had been putting out. It was a list that could only have been compiled by years of work visiting hundreds of restaurants and writing his reflections on each in his blog. I think that deserves a "shout out," regardless of your publication medium. Your point that "it's natural that there turns out to be a lot of overlap" is invalid because other publications, including yours, ignored most of Mr. Vaughn's picks until his recent D Magazine article. It's only natural to have overlap with his list because you started with his list as your main point of reference. Your inclusion of other sources such as Texas Monthly and the Star-Telegram were peripheral as evidenced by the fact that 8 of your 9 picks were on Vaughn's list and most had not been mentioned or reviewed by those other sources, probably just a poor attempt at masking your reliance on one source. The "accepted journalistic practices" you speak of in your "Let's clear the smoke" blog entry (i.e. passing off someone else's opinion as your own) are what keep mediocre and past-their-prime BBQ joints in the best-of lists and staff's-favorite awards of DFW's newspapers year in and year out. In this case, you were just lucky enough to profit from the work of someone who knows what he's writing about and who takes the time to try joints that are ignored by local food critics. <br /> <br />Now that this has come to light, I'm afraid you have given yourself a bad name among quite a few folks in the Texas BBQ culture. I am not trying to get anyone in trouble, but I do not like to see someone like Mr. Vaughn, who has more than earned his reputation as a Texas BBQ connoisseur, disrespected. I recommend issuing a personal apology to Mr. Vaughn and printing a correction that states your heavy reliance on his work, not because it's an accepted journalistic practice but because it's the right and neighborly thing to do. Your blog entry falls way short of giving him his due. You use the oak/hickory error as a red herring. It was only one of the reasons to suspect that you had pilfered his work. The "How we choose" section of your article would have been the perfect place to cite his writing or, if you prefer, all the sources you used to compile the meager list of joints that you decided to actually visit. Instead you chose to take credit for his work by saying the list "presents critics' and staff picks and asks readers to chime in with their favorites." That is what we in Texas politely refer to as [expletive withheld].<br /> <br />Sincerely,<br />Doug ZedlerDoug Zedlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02380828701790888668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-39910241070227974112010-12-07T09:32:18.282-06:002010-12-07T09:32:18.282-06:00Daniel,
Thought you'd find the enclosed story...Daniel,<br /><br />Thought you'd find the enclosed story intriguing and relevant to your recent rift with DMN.<br /><br />http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/12/07/the-100-hamster-wheel/<br /><br />Our mainstream media rips off each other without crediting work as well. Perhaps its just part of the business in each party's effort to remain relevant. Keep up the solid and original work.<br /><br />Andrew3rd Degree Bernshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06176387858411795900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-5649291768801777642010-12-06T09:46:47.579-06:002010-12-06T09:46:47.579-06:00If you are going to publish a "best of" ...If you are going to publish a "best of" anything without identifying any sources, you better have tried a very large sampling of whatever it is you're reviewing. Hitting 20 joints to come up with a list of the 9 best in DFW does not pass muster. Would you trust a list of the 9 best works of American fiction if the author of the list had only read 20 books? She should have revealed her starting point. <br /><br />And when she arrived at this particular list of 9 (assuming she did in fact visit all 9), she should have changed the angle of her piece to "Daniel Vaughn was right; these ARE the best in DFW."Doug Zedlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02380828701790888668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-24564892642098242832010-12-06T08:57:54.376-06:002010-12-06T08:57:54.376-06:00Looks like she corrected her error re: Bartley'...Looks like she corrected her error re: Bartley's wood. I wish I could say the same re: her journalistic practices. From the Brenner article:<br /><br />"The thin-sliced brisket could have been moister and smokier, but the super-meaty, well-seasoned ribs, done over HICKORY with a lightly sweet glaze and deep, smoky flavor, were outstanding."Doug Zedlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02380828701790888668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-27890263488893562742010-12-05T18:22:15.058-06:002010-12-05T18:22:15.058-06:00I pulled the article for future reading, and when ...I pulled the article for future reading, and when I glanced it, the list sounded familiar -- yours.<br /><br />This poor "restaurant critic" wannabe just reflects the mediocre, washed-up standards of the DMN. This rag has mastered the art of just publishing AP and other wires syndicated junk, and filling up its pages with not one original idea or original writing.<br /><br />So this project of a journalist and self denominated restaurant critic just did what she sees done daily at work -- publish other people's work and call it a lazy day. <br /><br />Newspapers continue to blame the Internet for their demise but apparently can realize that plagiarism and lazy writing is what has gotten them in the hole.<br /><br />Shameful, and sad.dallasmediatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-19362163215680069922010-12-04T10:53:17.703-06:002010-12-04T10:53:17.703-06:00Well, at first i thought you were being overly sen...Well, at first i thought you were being overly sensitive. I mean, the overlap in the top bbq choices must mean these places are really that good, and it makes me want to get out and try some of them. But there is no getting around the fact that she reported the same hickory/oak error in her recent article...the same error you originally made. I mean, wow. She tries to brush that error off like it is no big deal, but that right there really makes me question how much fact checking, research, and leg work she does on her own. After thinking about it all, i don't think you are overreacting at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-21276803461914768602010-12-04T09:20:06.339-06:002010-12-04T09:20:06.339-06:00I would go on to question whether she even went to...I would go on to question whether she even went to Bartley's at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-61372481230468427452010-12-03T21:03:56.060-06:002010-12-03T21:03:56.060-06:00I think the answer lies at the bottom of the artic...I think the answer lies at the bottom of the article which explains how they chose. <br /><br />"The Best in DFW series presents critic's and staff picks and asks readers to chime in with their favorites." <br /><br />I think they have covered their asses if they consider you a BBQ critic. <br /><br />No matter. They still should have credited the "critics and staff" whose picks they present. That's my take. <br /><br />As you say, some good joints get some well deserved press and hopefully some business that will help keep them around and cooking good things. Plus, you have to admit the DMN has done some good work promoting BBQ blogs over the last few years. I prefer to see it as the glass is half full, but the response by that writer is still pretty assinine.<br /><br />Don't worry. Leslie will soon "only" be a blogger. too.Don O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12067732086403645198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-24932507746160597432010-12-03T16:35:35.823-06:002010-12-03T16:35:35.823-06:00Clearly a breach of ethical behavior and a surpris...Clearly a breach of ethical behavior and a surprisingly glib response from the DMN who obviously couldn't be bother to compare Brenner's "work" to your own.<br /><br />-lunizAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-69944698155932346662010-12-03T13:52:07.742-06:002010-12-03T13:52:07.742-06:00Brenner is a low down piece of lying garbage. She ...Brenner is a low down piece of lying garbage. She reviewed the restaurant I work at, Bin 303, in rockwall and gave us a one star rating, the funny thing is, the first time she csme in she was a complete maniac and said only french wines are any good! Being from California herself that seems a little odd. Needless to say her review was less of a review and more of an attack on my bosses good name, oh and the snotty reply she gave you is classic Brenner, she thinks all Texans are redneck hicks, I promis you. Anways keep up the good work man, I personally think you have every right to be mad at Leslie Brenner. I'm gonna open up my own bbq joint someday and I can't wait to have you come review me!Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14905521806665452347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-36463043956362047382010-12-03T11:53:14.502-06:002010-12-03T11:53:14.502-06:00A college freshman who's writing a term paper ...A college freshman who's writing a term paper knows to credit sources, so a newspaper writer should. <br /><br />Your island of evidence shows that Brenner is either lazy or more interested in self glorification than ethics — most likely both.<br /><br />Blogs are often more reliable sources of information, and bloggers are more comfortable giving credit where credit is due. Meanwhile traditional media bathe themselves in the delusion that they are influential, even as their empire and their credibility crumble.Brown Bear Bobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-90270330903176899592010-12-03T09:46:01.998-06:002010-12-03T09:46:01.998-06:00It's a common theme these days. Someone "...It's a common theme these days. Someone "finds" a place and then suddenly it's "discovered" by everyone else.<br /><br />A notable example was when Teresa Gubbins first posted about Chapman Chile Kitchen. Over the next month many "journalistic" sources just "happened to be driving by" this obscure tiny place on a very obscure tiny street in a low traffic neighborhood and VOILA!! discovery occurred! Again and again.<br /><br />Clearly Wilonsky hit it on the head, until DMN writes about it, it ain't news. Perhaps Brenner's out right crib of your source material indicates that the DMN no longer pays their "writers" mileage. They certainly don't pay bonuses for ethics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-50109129212734179602010-12-03T09:39:13.252-06:002010-12-03T09:39:13.252-06:00I think you are legit!
And the DMN writer should ...I think you are legit!<br /><br />And the DMN writer should have given you credit.Plano Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-80486138280156994852010-12-03T09:32:05.082-06:002010-12-03T09:32:05.082-06:00"since I am merely a blogger that I may not b..."since I am merely a blogger that I may not be 'familiar with accepted journalistic practices'."<br /><br />boy! talk about looking down your nose at someone. doesn't she realize that journalists are not highly regarded by the general public. That same public has questioned "the journalistic standards" and this questioning takes place on blogs all over the place.<br /><br />Brenner should have stated up front that she used your list as a starting point, but her copying of your mistake shows that even she doesn't follow 'journalistic standards'Peterknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-90750107394336735902010-12-03T09:25:58.856-06:002010-12-03T09:25:58.856-06:00Please see my comment on Dallas Observer article a...Please see my comment on Dallas Observer article about the same subject. I have long suspected Brenner of taking the easy way out. <br />I.E. mirror articles with D Magazine daily blogs but 1/2 day later.....<br />Put her out to pasture.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-59918062532576375742010-12-03T08:43:20.899-06:002010-12-03T08:43:20.899-06:00I strongly support your position on this issue. Mu...I strongly support your position on this issue. Must be an act of desperation on her part for some unknown reason. Even with her plagiarizing your material, her article is obviously watered down & quite lame. Shame on her. Hopefully her employer will put an immediate halt on her job .....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-73315545986321910202010-12-03T08:25:50.075-06:002010-12-03T08:25:50.075-06:00I love how these alleged 'real' journalist...I love how these alleged 'real' journalists think the work a blogger does isn't journalism, but when push comes to shove, they have no problem reprinting the work as their own. Stuff like this, in my opinion anyway, reeks of Cooks Source magazine type stuff. I think your whining is more than justified and I don't blame you a bit.Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01023562594909342220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3233136766970701014.post-87870974471656956312010-12-03T08:08:02.713-06:002010-12-03T08:08:02.713-06:00I think it shows an interesting contrast in standa...I think it shows an interesting contrast in standards. So much of the blogoshpere does consist of reposts and commentary. Many professional journalists seem to assume that everything found there is inherently less original and deserving of recognition than their work. It is exactly the kind of wild simplification that often earns their scorn.smokemasteronehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13060574775769962975noreply@blogger.com